The Best and Worst of the Rural Church

Hosts: TJ Freeman, Joe Wagner, & Josh MacClaren

Summary: In this premier episode of Rural Church Renewal, formerly known as Rural Pastors Talk, hosts TJ, Joe, and Josh share experiences from their pastoral work in rural settings. They discuss the unique joys and challenges faced by rural churches, such as community support, resisting change, and maintaining traditions. Through personal anecdotes, they highlight the importance of shepherding with love and compassion, staying rooted in scripture, and striving for the glory of God amidst both sweet moments and frustrations. The episode sets the stage for a season focused on the sufficiency of scripture in church life.

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Transcript

Have you ever walked into a church business meeting and ended up refereeing a fight over whether to replace the hymnals or fix the tractor? Or maybe you've heard the rooster crow inside the sanctuary on Easter morning. Rural churches are full of stories that will make you laugh and cry and sometimes just shake your head, but behind every small town quirk is a mission that matters deeply to God.

We're glad you're here with us on Rural Church Renewal. Intro thingy. Welcome to Rural Church Renewal, formerly known as Rural Pastors Talk. My name is TJ Freeman and I am a rural pastor. I am joined today by Hey everybody. I'm Joe. I am like a John Cougar Mellencamp song. I was born in a small town, raised in a small town and taught to fear Jesus in the same small town.

I've been in pastoral ministry in the rural area for 20 years. I am an associate pastor here at Christ Church for the last three years where it's been glorious. What's going on, guys? My name is Josh McLaren. I tried to leave the rural church, a rural church that I was raised in. But God brought me back.

I was trained in rural ministry here, and I'm thankful to be pastoring Christ Church Mansfield, a church plant of Christ Church Wellsboro, in another rural town. I have a question for both of you. It's a two parter. What is the best thing that you've ever experienced in the real church, and the worst, most frustrating thing you've ever experienced in the real church?

Best and worst. Ready? Go. Go ahead, TJ. I need context. Why are you asking me such a question? Uh, because we love the rural church, but we know it's frustrating and we're sharing our bona fides with you guys a little bit, too. You might be thinking, why in the world are these three guys having a podcast on the rural church?

Maybe they haven't really experienced it. Well, we've experienced it. So there it is. Great point, Joe. And I do love the rural church, but the rural church is not without its flaws and it also has some really special spots. So, I'm going to say a bright spot. I had the opportunity one Sunday of leading our service.

And as I stood in the front. It was time for the offering. This was a time when the plate was going to be passed and everyone was seated. And it happened to be the Sunday after a funeral that we had on Saturday. And the widow of the man we buried on Saturday was there present with us on Sunday. Had they been part of the church for a long time?

They had been part of the church. In fact, the brother who died passed away immediately following church the week before. Like, we were still there for a fellowship meal. And so it was something the whole church family experienced together. And so we walked through this whole thing, just kind of, you know, the church is loving on this dear sister.

All of that. Well, during the offertory, we sang the song, how great thou art. And this sweet woman. Could not contain herself and she went from being seated like everyone else to standing with her arms raised and I'll tell you a secret, She comes from a Mennonite background. So those arms don't naturally raise a real conscious decision to say, you know what at this moment?

I just need to praise the Lord because he is great Even though I've just walked through the hardest thing I've experienced in my life and the way the whole church then rallied and all stood around her I mean, the whole church rose to our feet together, and it was one of the sweetest, most community building, God honoring moments that I've ever experienced in the life of the church, and I will never forget it.

And also, I came in with a bad attitude that day because it was cold and snowy out. And I was frustrated and I realized at that moment how foolish it was for me to have a poor attitude over something so insignificant when this woman who had just really lost half of her life was able to stand up and praise the Lord. So really instructive and being just in a small town community where we all knew each other and loved each other made it even more powerful. That's beautiful.

That really is. I think that that's one of the strengths Of the rural church, and it's not that urban or suburban churches that the people don't love one another and care for one another deeply, But man in that rural church where people have been there for 30 40 50 years, maybe their entire lives those relationships that we build are just so Real and genuine and honest and to see people come out of their shells as well This might be the point where i'm driving at We tend to be a little bit more restrained or constrained or traditional in the, in the rural church.

But to see you describing how she raised her arms in worship, that's a glorious and beautiful thing, brother. Thank you so much. I have one that's less, theologically minded. One of my favorite moments here at the life of this church is. A leak. Off. A leak competition. I wondered where you were going with that.

Not like, not like water lines. Not like water lines. Like the wild onion vegetable. Right, if you don't have leaks in your area, I feel so sorry for you, but right behind our church, there's a patch of wild In the woods. Ramps. leaks in the woods. And so we had a competition. We went, we went and dug up wild leaks and we brought them into our homes and we cooked whatever recipe we could come up with using leaks.

And then we judged each other based on that. And if you've never eaten leaks, your breath is, we didn't actually judge one another. We judged the dishes that they brought in. I don't know about you, but I was judging the people who made them. Some of them were lame. Some of them were good. But that was a really sweet time that being in a rural church made possible.

What about you, Joe? Oh, I was going digging back through my memories and actually one of my best moments in a rural church that I can remember fondly, and this is when I was growing up. I was, oh boy, I was in my late teens. And it was at a church service. I had not been to church in months. I was having my own personal rumspringa, I was off to college and not doing good things.

I came back to church and there were not many people there, man, there were 40. But the pastor, he was just a genuinely, really, warm, engaging guy and he had a soft spot for me and I went forward that Sunday and it was a Sunday morning. Here's the thing I went forward I was at the alder ball on my eyeballs out And that's not necessarily something that I would say every church needs to have an alder and have an alder call But I remember this and the elders of that church that I had known that were elders ever since I was in diapers Came up and prayed with me. That was super, super special, just growing up in that church, seeing the love and the care that they had for me.

Those men that I had known for my entire life, and maybe hadn't really ever had conversations with, but came up and prayed for me specifically. That was, that was a really special time in the rural church where I was growing up. I'll start with one. Good memory and then I'll transition us maybe into some of the harder things we've dealt with.

 I remember coming here and TJ encouraged me as an intern, if you want to get to know the men, you need to do what they do. And one of the things they do, Joe you're even off this week but you came in this I am on vacation this week. What are you doing this week? I am hunting the mighty Pennsylvania white tailed deer.

Just so everybody knows, Joe is covered in blood right now. Actually, it's my own blood right now. Not like, grotesquely, but yeah. And so, I took that encouragement, and now Dearest and closest friends in the church have I see what you did there from hunting you're there We were dearest friends my dearest that's not what I was trying to say, but it just happened. We were able to walk through one of them having a miscarriage. We were able to walk through with them. You're forming these relationships in activities that really are unique to rural settings, that enable you to minister in one another's lives. One of them was willing to come help start the church plant with us. For like six months and they served their tails off. So that was just really encouraging to do something unique like that in a rural setting and see how God chose to use that to really bless the relationship. One of the harder things I think that we experience in rural ministry, Being in a traditional small town, it's slow to change.

And so I remember a couple of times actually guest preaching at smaller rural churches. And one of the things that could be frustrating was something like, Bible translation and unwillingness to hear from or receive from a more modern, perhaps even more accurate bible translation, and. So the old kjv. The old kjv. It's not just a Preference for that translation.

It was this is the word of God and if you're not preaching for us, You're not actually being faithful. And so I think in unwillingness to change or even face our traditions and take inventory of them and consider whether or not we can defend them from the word which we're going to talk about later this season. I think is, is one struggle of being in rural ministry.

I will jump right in here. This is along the same lines of an unwillingness to change or to do something new. And I don't want to say change for the sake of change, but change to be more faithful according to what the word says. So anyway, go ahead. Yeah, it's shaking loose from tradition.

If you are in the same church that you grew up in, you kind of develop a reputation. I don't know if that's the best way, but, Follow along here with what I'm going to do. What I'm going to share with you is probably the first dagger that I felt really straight to my heart that led me to realize that, Hey, maybe this particular church where I was serving in at that time was not the one where the Lord was calling me to.

Okay. So, and I'm not saying either that if you face hard times, that it's time for you to leave. Not at all, but this was in the fall. And I believe that it was following a funeral and there were beautiful mums up front from the funeral. Like four beautiful pots of mums and it was a fairly nice day and this was a Sunday.

For our British listeners. So, you're not talking about moms. Not moms. Mums. Flowers. Flowers. Okay. Orange, red, yellow. Gorgeous. And my exhortation was on like evangelism or at least reaching out to our neighborhood that we were in. And so I said, I need four volunteers just to walk across the street, knock on somebody's door, and say, hi, my name is so and so and here are some moms from the church.

We'd like you to have them. That's all I asked them to do. It wasn't driving anywhere. It wasn't going anywhere out into Timbuktu. It was literally in our neighborhood. Just four folks take these mums and give them flowers. Don't say anything else. And we actually had some visitors that day. They were a long time kind of visitors.

They came up, they had a cabin and man, they jumped right on it. They were from a different part of the state. They were so exuberant, so enthusiastic about doing it. And then it was a little bit more pulling teeth, but two other couples took the other ones. And I had one set left and I took it to this woman and I said, Hey, would you want to take these moms just right across the street and you could just set them on the doorstep.

And she said, Oh, that's not me. I don't do that. I was like, come on, it can be you. You can do this, this is easy. But that right there, I realized how set in stone and how not willing to change somebody was to do something, even as small as what that was. That's not me, I don't do that. That may not sound bad, but in the moment, that was just an icy cold dagger to my heart.

Sank thinking to myself, are some of these folks ever going to be willing to do anything at all? Because that was super easy. That was a hard, hard day. And I'm sure you learned over time too, that there's a lot behind that. You mentioned it as reputation. There in a small town. Yeah. You kind of become what people's perception of you is.

Right. And it feels really uncomfortable to step outside of that. Yes. Even if the perception is, I'm a loner, I'm a, you know, rigid person. There's a little bit of a, sometimes a sense of pride in being rugged and that rugged individual spirit. Right. And as beautiful as what that is, It's not very biblical.

 In some cases. Yeah. Yeah it's not. Part of the reason for this is as the church, we're meant to show the world what the kingdom of God is like. Right. And we forget that. One of the reasons we forget that is because it's easy in a small town for church to become a tradition. And ultimately antithetical to the mission of the church.

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It becomes its own little thing. And I want to be really fair because a lot has changed in small towns for people. Some people have watched their post office close. They've seen the store close. They've watched businesses go away. And the one thing they still have that feels the same is the church. Yeah, and so when we go around. It's a really good point. When we go around changing things we're robbing them of something more than just an experience that they're used to. We're robbing them of their identity. Right.

And people often meet that with resistance. Yep. But let me share with you, that can be overcome. Mm hmm Absolutely, it can be overcome. The Spirit of God working in people. The Word of God working upon God's people, as you proclaim it from the pulpit, And one to one in groups as you continue to proclaim that and share that, That can be overcome.

People can change. That's right. In fact, that's why you're called to your church, whether you're a pastor or a ministry leader. People listening, you know, we're talking, we're reflecting on some cool things, some sweet moments, and also some difficulties that exist in the rural church, with the purpose of highlighting the fact that God means to use that church as a demonstration of his glory.

Amen. And you've got to be able to throw away the sweet things that are like Awesome. That's great. I loved it. And then the difficult things that are, boy, that's a challenge. I'm frustrated. I don't know if I can overcome this. And have that center line which says, in all of these things, we're here for the glory of God.

And let me just kind of back up to that story. I didn't leave the next day. I was still at that church. I served for five more years there. You're vindicated. Thank you very much. And that same woman, when we did a bread ministry, when we actually baked homemade loaves of bread to take them out to like nurses and doctors.

Mm. She did it. She made bread. See, she doesn't do flour, she does bread. Yeah. Yep. I had a tough one that I'll just sort of tell on myself with. When I was growing up, I did not like going to church for a lot of reasons. I went to a small country church. Yep. And it was very traditional.

The men are all wearing suits and ties and talking about the fact that you ought to wear suits and ties to church. So it was a point of pride and it was equated with your spirituality. So your dress becomes a moral thing. And I know that it can be sometimes, but not having a suit and tie was kind of like, I don't know, cussing or something.

It rose to that level of you've done something wrong. And then we sang hymns that I didn't understand the words ever for, and I didn't know how to sing and follow along the harmonies. And it seemed like if you could sing harmony, you were at the next level of godliness, you know? And so I never could do that.

And it would make me quiet. And, we could kind of go on and on with some of the legalism. That was there, and that's often true in a rural church, but it pushed me away as a kid and I got to where I just didn't want to go anymore, and when I became old enough to get a job, I got a job that required me to work on Sundays, so I had an excuse not to be there, and so I think sometimes that traditionalism, it creates an unnecessary barrier.

Between people who mean to follow the Lord, and the church. And that's a real danger in rural places. It can feel like a club that if you don't belong to just right, if you don't, you know, meet all of their initiation requirements or whatever, then you're not ever going to feel welcome there, right?

Ultimately, we've shared some of the beautiful things and then also some of the very very difficult things. And what we would like to be able to do is encourage you. And we have been there. We've experienced those things. And there are a ton of things we haven't even shared in this episode. But to encourage you to be able to take those head on as a pastor, as a deacon, as a member of the church. Help you to think through these sorts of things, but then also offer You Biblical scriptural solutions to help renew your church if your church is stuck in some of those legal, mystic, traditional, unchanging desires that you want to do.

So what could happen to you, if you're not careful as a ministry leader, or somebody who's at least filling some kind of ministry role or interested in that in your church, is you could look at some of the frustrations and get real irritated by them. That happened in the church I grew up in there was a group of people who did not like the music. And the worship wars began. And that group of people got so frustrated that they raised an army of People who wanted a different style of music that had meetings clandestinely, and then that whole group left. Several of them no longer go to church anywhere. As a ministry leader, we have to realize it's not our job to just complain, or it's not our job to pat ourselves on the back because we're wearing the right suit, or because we have the right translation of the Bible, or whatever.

Our responsibility is to be involved with shepherding the flock of God that He's put us in. 1 Peter 5, 1 talks about that. Shepherding the flock of God that's among you. So God has put you in a church. And it's your responsibility to do what, guys? What should ministry leaders be thinking about regarding their role in the church?

Well, I was just thinking, you mentioned 1 Peter 5. He says, Shepherd the flock of God that's among you, exercising oversight. And it's done willingly, so there's a willingness to love the people whom God has given you. He sovereignly placed you there. So there's a willingness to serve where God has you. You're not doing it out of a means to gain, but you're doing it eagerly, hoping that, in praying, that the Lord would transform these people. And you're not using your authority as a means to build your own kingdom, but as a means to see God glorified and that's at the heart of it.

You, you have to be after the glory of God in this thing. So I just want to say to the listener, if you are pursuing something other than the glory of God as your primary aim, this is your opportunity to have some renewal personally. You really need to consider why am I here in this church? What has been my motivation in the conversations I've had and the investments I've made? In the fights that I've engaged in? In all of those things.

And I hope that, following this episode, you'll say, you know what, whether it's a fight over the boiler needing fixed, whether it's some inconvenience we're facing, whatever, I'm gonna turn that all over to the Lord and do my best to help this congregation, whatever my role is, be devoted to the glory of God.

I think the secondary thing that comes right along with that, is to love and have compassion on either the people that you are leading as their pastor or that you're meeting together with as members. Having compassion on them. It just resonates so much with me right before the feeding of the 5, 000, Jesus Sees all of these people and he had compassion on them because they were like sheep without a shepherd. We pursue the glory of God because we love him. Most of all and above all things. And then the second commandment is like it. Love the people that you are called together to be with, and have compassion, mercy, and grace upon them as well.

Even if they're super, super frustrating, love them, have compassion on them. Want to see them grow in their faith and their spiritual walk with the Lord. That's right. Well, this has been episode one of this new season under the new title, Rural Church Renewal. We changed the title because we wanted to recognize it's not just rural pastors who are talking.

There are people who are in rural churches who have no pastor, there are deacons, there are elders, there are committee leaders, and you're trying in some way to help your church be a healthy church. And we want to recognize that, and thank you for that kind of work. Amen. And also, invite you into this season where we're going to be talking all season long about the sufficiency of scripture in the life of the church.

And why it matters. That's right. Why that matters. Absolutely. So that's what this season is all going to be about under rural church renewal. We want to see your church rooted deeply in a conviction that the word of god is sufficient for all things. On the next episode, we're going to be talking about the reason for renewal in your church and the rural church in general. Hope you'll stay tuned.

This is a ministry of the Brainerd Institute for Rural Ministry, this podcast. And we hope that it's a resource that you will listen to, that you'll subscribe to, but you'll share, and even review. Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time