Do You Pass the Hospitality Test?

In this episode of Rural Pastors Talk, TJ Freeman, Josh MacClaren, and Joe Wagner swap memorable “worst hotel” stories to highlight how first impressions linger and why hospitality matters when guests visit a church. 

They discuss common rural-church hospitality pitfalls, like locked or unused front doors, unclear entrances, and assuming everyone already knows where to go. They also offer practical steps such as opening the main doors, using simple signage (especially for bathrooms and classrooms), keeping entryways clean, and providing coffee and refreshments. 

The guys talk through greeting strategies from the parking lot to the door, caution against “greeting fatigue” and calling visitors out from the pulpit, and encourage equipping members (including teens) for welcoming roles. 

Transcript

Do You Pass the Hospitality Test?

Hello? 

Is anybody home? Uh, 

yeah. Come on in. What are they doing? Coming to the front door? 

I know you'd think anyone who matters knows that they need to use the side door. 

Were we expecting visitors? 

I maybe did. Did you make plans? 

You guys said nine 30, right? 

Oh yeah. Um, yeah. 9, 9 30. Yep. Come on in. Uh, you can find your way around and sit wherever 

expecting guests at your church this week.

Don't treat 'em like that. On this episode of Rural Pastors Talk. And thank you for joining us for another edition of Rural Pastors Talk, a podcast highlighting the advancement of Christ's kingdom in rural places, just like the town you live in. The rural church is not the baby pool we splash around in before moving on to bigger opportunities.

It's not the place we're confined until we can take off those training wheels, and it is not God's penalty box as a punishment for breaking the rules. No, Jesus died for his people. And as long as Christ's people live in rural places of vibrant, healthy. Rural something, multiplying presence of 

his church.

Hey. Yeah. You got 

it. Could be there too. I got it. I lost my place for a second. Hey, welcome to this episode of Rural Pastors Talk. My name is TJ Freeman. I am a rural pastor for almost a couple decades now. 

What's going on guys? This is Josh McLaren. Been in rural ministry for almost eight years. 

Hey, my name is Joe Wagner.

I've been in rural ministry for about as long as TJ has, so almost two decades. 

There we go. And mine technically wasn't rural the whole time I rebelled against rural for a season. I'm glad to be here as a rural pastor today with you dear brothers. Um, so what's going on on the episode today? 

Uh, well, we're gonna discuss our worst hotel stays.

We're gonna discuss why hospitality, particular greeting, matters for your congregation. Uh, we review oil changes? 

Alright. 

And then a quote to float your boat. 

By? 

Yep. We'll find one before the end of the episode. 

Very good. That's how professional we professionally, we do it over here. So you, uh, what's your question about hotels?

Josh, you had an interest one? Yeah. What's the 

worst hotel stay you guys have ever had? 

Who wants to go first? 

I have a doozy, so I, I'll go whenever you'd like me to. 

All right. If your doozy can be my doozy. So we were staying at an unnamed small city in, on the eastern seaboard. I'll leave it at that. And, uh, we pulled in, I went to the front desk, said, Hey, I need room for my family.

We were on vacation and they said, sure, you can have a room pull around to the side 'cause you're gonna have to go in that entrance. But I wouldn't park there. And I was like, okay. So we pulled around to the side, unloaded the whole crew. My family with all of my children go in. We go in and we look at this room and it was, uh oh, it smelled like an armpit.

The room was horrible. And then I went to the front desk. I'm like, Hey, please, will you change our room for us? This one smells hot really bad. And they said, sure, you can go onto the other side of the hallway and there's another room over there. So we went over to that room, we go over to that room, which was slightly better.

I pull open the shades to let in some sunlight and some vitamin D and I look out and there's my car. And one of the locals is, uh, testing my bungee cords for all of our vacation equipment. Was strapped to that and I was like, uh, this isn't good. So I had to run out there and scare them away. And, uh, Ashley, my wife, smuggled the kids up to the front desk and I told her we'd meet her and we got out of there in a hurry.

Did you get a refund? 

We did get a refund. Wow. I was like, can't stay here. This happened. And they're like, okay. Like they expected it. 

Alright. What's your do? 

Oh man. Well, it actually just happened within the past two months. We traveled to Florida to watch our nephew and niece compete in some indoor track finals for college.

And on our ride back, our sister had booked two hotel rooms for us, same hotel. We stayed in on the ride down, it was like halfway. Um, and we get there really late, like midnight, and they're like, and she had already checked us in like 12:00 PM Uh, we get there and they say, oh, we don't have a room for you.

We're like, what do you mean you don't have a room for us? She says, oh, well, the, the site has been overbooking. Everyone. We literally don't have a room for you. So now I have two grumpy kids who are just wanna go to bed. So we scour hotels in the area and there's this softball tournament happening like an NCAA softball tournament happening.

So 

you're toast. 

So we're toast. So we drive a little bit forward. We call a guy, he says he has rooms. We get to the room, nothing is clean, bathroom's dirty, there's trash. We're like, what is going on? He says. Oh, I'm so sorry. The six rooms that, uh, have been told we've, we were told were available. None of my cleaning staff actually got to, none of them are available.

Oh. We sit in this room for like 15 minutes and then it all ends with us getting to Bucky's at 3:00 AM and sleeping in the parking lot. You 

mean you didn't want a hot sheet in a unknown hotel room? 

Nope. Yeah. Nope. So we, uh, we slept at the Bucky's. 

Wow. Yep. In the Bucky's 

parking lot in the Buckys. I had my.

My five-year-old just sleep on my chest and it was the worst night's sleep I think I've ever gotten. 

Did you get a barbecue sandwich out of it? 

Uh, I got a nice breakfast sandwich. Okay. Yes. Nice. It was terrible. 

Have you been to Bucky's, Joe? 

I have not been to Bucky's, but it is on my bucket list. It's the 

Promise 

Land.

It's on my Bucky's It 

on your Bucky's list. Yeah. Very good. I can't top either of you guys' stories, but I. I have several bad hotel stay experiences because for most of our marriage, we ain't got no money. And so you're finding just, 

we'll leave the light on for you. Amen. 

Yeah, that's right. And um, like one time, often when you stay at a budget hotel.

They allow pets. And so one time it was just like a nasty pet pee on the floor kind of a situation. Um, several times it was like, Hey, just sleep on top of the blankets, don't actually get into the bed. Oh, 

yeah. 

Um, and actually for most of our marriage, bedbugs weren't like a fear. That's a newer thing, right?

New-ish. I mean, 20 years ago you weren't talking about bed bugs. Oh, no. Yeah. So I don't know when that, when the bedbugs returned. I always thought don't let the bedbugs bite was just like a, you know, cute little, 

like a make 

believe thing. Children. Yeah. Right. It's real apparently. Thankfully, I've never had 'em.

Um, but then here's the, the one I'll end on. We stayed at a place where, um, we were staying sharing a room with my in-laws small room, two queen beds. And the night before we joined them on the trip, they were up all night because there were gunshots in the room next door. Oh my gosh. Yikes. Yeah. So yeah, you can definitely get sketchy and all of this has what to do with church 

hospitality, baby 

US is is hospitality.

Mm-hmm. So when people come into our churches, the very first experience that they have is a huge experience. Whether they coming in like my room smelled like an armpit. Josh's room was incredibly in disarray, terrible. Nobody was necessarily there to meet them. Um, yeah. When people come into our churches, are they having that same experience that we are having?

And I would say that people remember that for a long, long time if they have a bad experience. 

That's of set up question. There is. We remember those bad experiences in hotels for a long time. We'll never forget them. 

Yeah. 

And you'll never go back to that hotel again, will you? 

That's right. 

What, what are the, the, the church health people say?

It's like people make their decision about whether to state your church in the first 10 minutes or something like that? I think 

it's shorter than that. 

Is it shorter than that? Mm-hmm. Obviously the spirit works. 

I was gonna say outside 

of 

our statistics, but look at you quoting church health book. 

Well, you know, 

you are a young church planter now, so.

Um, hey, so have you had any bad experiences at at churches with hospitality? 

I started last time, so somebody else gotta start this time. 

I'll start 'cause I went last, last time. I'm gonna generalize. We have the opportunity through the Brainerd Institute to spend a lot of time at other churches and so we get to see a lot of stuff.

Plus, we've all just been around the church world for a long time, so I'm not thinking of any one particular church as I share this, but I want to just kind of generalize often. There's the assumption that nobody knew is gonna come to church today. Mm. And so we don't make preparations for people to come and we can be surprised if somebody knocks on the door.

Um, common example is we no longer use the front door. Josh, you've seen this before. Yeah. Um, 

I heard tell of a, of a church that, uh, did not have their front doors open. They had them locked and. The defense was, well, anyone who's going to be here knows that the side door is unlocked. 

Yeah. So, so obviously we're not expecting anybody new.

Nope. Nope. 

And anybody who's gonna, who's gonna come should already have it figured out. 

Yep. 

Um, a number of the churches I've preached at, for whatever reason, they, they've stopped using the front doors. Usually there's like a back parking lot. Mm-hmm. And then there's a little side door that's open. And the front doors don't open at all.

So what does that communicate to people? When we don't open the front doors, 

we're closed. 

That's right. Yeah. 

Or we don't want you no vacancy. Yeah. 

Yeah. It's like a no vacancy sign. Yeah, that's exactly right. And so if you're in a, in a rural church and you've gotten used to the typical crowd, you're not really expecting guests and you don't open your front doors, let me encourage you, open them joints.

Mm-hmm. Um, in, in fact, if in the nicer weather months, especially if you church is anywhere near other homes or a, a main street, something like this, a side street. Open those doors and let the word of God flow out from that building right onto the street. Mm-hmm. That is a wonderful testimony. When our church was in town, we opened the front doors, even though everyone came in the back door parking lot, and we left them open the whole service.

Yep. And people would comment on that, that they would drive by and see it or walk by and see. So, yeah, 

I, I'm trying to think of the last couple of churches that I had visited at and I didn't have a bad experience mm-hmm. But not an experience. I thought I was gonna have a better experience. 

Hmm. Yeah. 

And what 

do you mean by that?

Alright, so, uh, we went into a church of about 300 people when we were on vacation one time. And it was kind of a happen, happened in church and a a, a church denomination kind of known for their friendliness and, and happiness. And I was like, man, I bet you these text, 

wait, wait, what? Church denomination is known for their happiness?

I'm not going to, 

okay. You don't have to say 

no. Yeah. So it wasn't like a grumpy church. 

What is, what is our denomination known for? 

We have a, we are non-denominational. Yeah, that's right. There are some denominations that are, are known kind of for their grumpiness and there are some church denominations that are known for that are not so grumpiness.

Okay. And this was one of those not so grumpy churches. And, uh, I was like, these guys are gonna have it down. And we did get a warm handshake at the door, but I went in and I, I went to their visitor station. And I guess what I was gonna say is they just didn't, it's almost like they weren't expecting people to actually do the things that they wanted them to do.

Oh, right. 

Like when I went to, 

nobody uses the 

visitors. Nobody uses actually the visitors saying I had, man, they had this great. Visitors, uh, counter set up, and I went over and was asking, like, I was pretending not to be a pastor, right? Mm-hmm. So I was trying not to ask two right. Good questions. And the, the sweet lady just didn't know the answers.

Mm-hmm. And that was like, that's cool. She was warm and friendly, but she just didn't really know what she was expected to know, and it was okay. Not that I'm gauging people on their intelligence. No, that's super intelligent. Yeah. But she just didn't know the answers. 

Yeah. So if you're gonna have somebody there simple, have them kinda know the answers.

You, I, you lost me for a second because I was realizing that when I go to other churches, I also pretend I'm not a pastor. Yeah. I never thought about that before. You, 

you 

walk in, we almost play inside baseball 'cause we know what we would, what we expect at our church, right? Churches. Yeah. And you go in and um, you almost secret 

shop.

Yeah. You almost get the secret shop a little bit right. Yeah, 

I've gone into, I've gone into churches as the pulpit supply, which we all have. Mm-hmm. And that can be weird too. Mm-hmm. You know, it's like the pastor at a wedding reception sometimes you're like, nobody wants to run up and greet you. 

Yeah. 

And you try to go up and shake hands and kind of engage in conversation and it's just kind of weird a little bit.

Yep. Absolutely. So, yeah. So we've talked about one thing and that is not having the front doors open. That's an easy fix. Open the doors. Um, two, we've talked about having things like a visitor station. Now I would, I would imagine, I'm thinking of our church, um, years ago, we had no such thing as a visitor station or any thought of what that could be.

So what do you mean by that? And should we have them? 

I would say yes. Um, if you can do it well. One of the struggles that we have at, at our church is we have a starting point station and that's bounced around to a couple different places. Mm-hmm. Just simply because the structure of our church is really difficult for people, 

which is probably gonna be common, right?

Yes. A lot of our listeners are gonna have weird buildings. 

It, you're gonna have a weird building. So this is something that we have even, I don't know if struggled with, but had worked, tried to work through. You. You wanna have that set up in a place that's comfortable for people to be able to actually stop and for the person at your starting point or your visitor station, to actually engage them in a realistic, warm, charming, friendly sort of a way.

And the person that you have stationed there, they can't necessarily be an introvert. Mm. They've gotta be one of your extroverted people. Yeah. And to be able to do it naturally and kindly. Really just welcome them and not push a whole bunch of paraphernalia into their hands and try to get their information.

Like if they were like a, a, a, a telephone salesperson, 

which means you're going to be empowering the people in your church, which is what we're supposed to do, and you're, you might not have in your congregation somebody who is that big, extroverted front. Of house kind of a personality. 

Well, let me just, I want to, there is one particular person at a chain hardware store in our county.

Mm-hmm. 

Do you know who I'm talking about? 

I don't know yet. 

I want to evangelize her. So she comes to faith and have her come and be our visitor per station because 

Oh, the dear sister at the Lowe's checkout. 

Yeah. Oh yeah. Now you know exactly who I'm talking, know 

exactly who you're talking about. 

Exactly who I'm talking about.

Yep. She's incredible. She just makes warm, kind, friendly, 

and she remembers you 

and 

she 

remember you. Like when you're in there a ton, she's like, oh yeah, you want your receipt emailed not printed. And is that all you need, hun? Like, oh 

yeah, and, and she might be a Christian. I don't know. But 

yeah, you called her a sister.

So, 

oh, sorry. I'm so used this. I know. I don't know, but. 

It's just, I, we both remember that experience and you picked it up without too many clues and knew exactly who I was talking 

about. I'm not manly enough to go to Lowe's, so it's not, 

we'll pick that up later in the podcast as well. 

Yeah. I've driven by before though.

Um, yeah. So you, you may not have, so that's one point is like, as people get saved and come to your church. Figure out those kind of gifts and use 'em, but also you might have to use the best of what you got. 

Yeah. 

And that's just trust the Lord, the lord's given you the congregation. He's given you not the one you wish you had.

Um, can 

you train somebody to be like that? 

Uh, I mean, you can definitely train them to do better than they naturally would do without training. 

Mm-hmm. I, I would agree. Yeah. I would agree. It can be, it can be a not total failure. 

Yeah, that's right. 

Every anybody can be kind, anybody can be friendly, anybody can act like they want that person there.

Yeah, that's right. Couple little coaching things. What would you say to somebody that you were gonna put at that spot? 

Oh, you put me on the spot. Um, after everything that I just said, I would say don't be pushy. 

Mm. 

Don't. Lead with will you fill out your name and your address and your email and all of your children's names and social security numbers on this piece of paper and your 

credit cards, which is 

why a lot of people don't do that because they don't wanna be pushy.

Yeah. But maybe a, a quick way that you could do that stuff is develop real conversation. Like it's a real human, it's not a target. Yeah, absolutely. You're asking them questions. Yeah. Asks, this is one of the biggest ones, I think. Open-ended questions. Ask good questions. Yeah. And then connect on something.

And at the end, I'd love to stay in touch. Would you mind if we swap contact info, 

find something that they're, you have with them in common or, uh, you can gen, everybody's able to read people, you, when people are coming in, they're either going to be nervous or they're gonna be looking around and not knowing what's going on.

Yeah. Just be warm. Hey, my name is, my name's Joe. I don't think I've seen you before. And that's usually all you have to say To lead into that conversation with an open-ended question. 

I'm gonna point out something that takes down the fourth wall for a second. 

Yeah, 

you're gonna sniff right on your, your pod, your mic.

No, it's not your sniffing. It's the fact that your mic is at your nose level now. 

Oh, sorry. 

I don't know how it got up there. Just put that down. I've 

been trying to not sniff, 

grab the arm part. Sorry. Listeners, this is. 

I'm, 

hold on everybody. 

Plug your ears. 

Joe is sick guys. 

Yes. In his defense. There you go.

Right there. That's money right there. I like it. 

If you listened to this last Sunday sermon, it wasn't terrible, but I sniffed an awful lot. 

Oh man. 

That's okay. Uh, so we're gonna keep the doors open. We're gonna have somebody at maybe some kind of a welcome station. Uh, which is a part of a broader system of hospitality.

What do you think I'm gonna say that falls under, 

well, who should go, who do you think is before that? Hospitality station? 

Yeah, Josh. 

Parking people. 

You're a church planter. 

Oh. You know, if, uh, if you have the opportunity to guide people where to park, uh, they're a first, you know, a first, first face. They see, they park you with a smile.

Uh, I Where smile on a friendly wave, 

baby. 

That's the easiest thing ever. A good service. Um, good. 

They could hold signs in the parking lot that say you're doing better than you think. You're, 

stop it. No. 

No. Okay. 

We, uh, for the Good Friday service, where do we, you know, we on the left, Colton ETT is here just greeting us.

You're just dropping 

names all, 

all over the place. Sorry. And then another young man that everybody 

knows him. 

Yeah. Well, and then another young man right up front again, directs us. Big smile. 

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You said something. I think that's really important. 

What, 

you described the person that you just named.

What was he? 

He's a, he's a man who happens to be, 

no, no, no, no. You left. You okay. Yeah. Young 

man. 

17-year-old 

youngin. 

We've got, 

am I allowed to say that at 30 now? Can I? Can I? Yeah. 

No, that was the point. He was a young man and my point was. If you got some teenagers in your church, you think you could do this, send them on out there to be parking lot's.

Right. Smile wave. Yeah. 

Not just haphazardly, but yeah. With, with hospitality in mind. 

That's a great way to equip them and train them and have them be involved. 

So it is even guys at a small rural church where it's just you haven't seen a guest in five years. 

Yeah. 

Stick somebody out there in the parking lot, put a little vest on 'em so they don't get run over and let 'em greet the people as they walk in.

No, nobody's gonna have a problem with that. No one's gonna be, have their feelings hurt that they were greeted while in the parking lot. 

Very few volunteers will say no to being a parking lot attendant. That's true. Because it's so easy. 

Yeah, that's right. It feels way less threatening even. 

Yes, it does.

Yep. 

Well, because we're not even just practicing hospitality, right. For guests, but also for our members as well. 

Yeah, 

Paul says, so then as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith. You know, so our hospitality starts with each other. That almost gets at like the heart behind this.

We're not just practicing hospitality so that we'd have a welcoming church so that seats would fill, right. We're our desires to be faithful in this. And, uh. You're making these preparations so that when it comes, not if, but you're praying when it comes, when a guest comes, or when, you know, family members come on Easter, that may not regularly go to church, you know, or someone they're, they're welcomed into your church in a way that the Lord might use to keep them around.

So, 

absolutely. Yeah. So we got the doors open, we got a welcome station of some sort. Um, we've got greeters in the parking lot. Probably maybe agreed at the door. 

Mm-hmm. 

Now, I want to caution you here, we've now listed what, at least four, I think three or four different stations, 

right? 

You can do something called greeting fatigue, where you actually wear people out.

They feel like they've gone through a gauntlet. The gauntlet on Christian handshakes. So I, I had an experience like this at a church once. That was super weird. I think, you know, our headlights looked different from all their members' headlights somehow at this evening service. They knew that we were not normal attenders.

So my wife and I, before we had kids, we walk in and they're at the door, are all the men on one side and all the women on the other side. And we, I felt like we were walking through one of those rainbows out under the football field or something, you know, and, um, it was just awkward and uncomfortable. And then during the sermon, the pastor actually said things directly to us.

Um, don't be that that's way over the top, but do have some kind of like, Hey, we have somebody outside. We've got somebody at the door. It really helps if that person at the door has something to hand out. A lot of churches are getting away from bulletins. But having a, something in your hand that you pass them as they walk in, people take it, they say thank you.

It makes it not weird. So maybe that's an argument for both of, we'll see 

if you guys agree with me on this. If you're going to air one way or another, I would rather air in smothering them with hospitality and welcome. 

Yeah, just don't feel like, make it feel like a cult. 

What? What? I'm the reason shiny heavy people, the reason why I'm saying that is I don't want people to be tentative.

For how much energy they put into that. 

Yeah, sure. 

Yeah. 

But whatever you do, pastor, don't point them out from the pulpit. 

Yeah, yeah. That's right. 

That's a known, 

that happened to us on our honeymoon. 

I did that work. I've 

done that before. We went to, we went this little church in the middle of like, Redwood Country, California, and it was a good sermon and the the, the church was so hospitable.

The one thing though, as pastor was like, oh, and we have guests walking in 'em, we were like, ah, 

yeah, that's right. Um, okay. So I'm gonna then kind of take us away from, so we've got our greeters, we've got our doors open, things like that. What else can you do just generally to be hospitable around the building?

Josh Refreshments went into a seltzer. Yeah. 

Refreshments. Coffee. People are willing to talk when you've got a drink in your hand. 

Amen. That is super secret. Power right there. 

Yeah. It makes you feel more human, I guess. Like, oh, 

we're just, especially dudes, dudes are more willing to open up when their hands are being occupied and they've got a project to do, oh my God, my project is to go get this cup of coffee.

I'm gonna put, for whatever reason, they're more willing to talk and open up and, and share that experience with somebody. 

I'm, I'm gonna say something that's gonna just shock you. 

Oh, I'm ready. 

Get your sock shocked off. 

Oh man. 

Um. Brew Folger's Coffee. 

Whoop whoop. 

Yeah. Or Maxwell House. Mm-hmm. 

My dad is so pleased we moved to Folger's Coffee.

Right. This is illustrates my point now. I love good coffee. 

Yeah. 

And when I came to town from my big city experience where we intentionally served good coffee and people were thankful for that. 

You mean fancy pants? Coffee, 

fancy pants, coffee. Yeah. Which is anything other than Folgers in most rural people's mind.

So we served really good coffee. And you know what the church said to me? We can tell you're serving good coffee and we don't want that. We don't wanna waste the money on that. Just get the Folgers, run it through the drip machine. For some reason, put salt on top of it. I don't know why they did that, but 

here is this a really silly little story.

Hopefully it makes sense. I ran outta coffee the other day. At my house. 

Mm-hmm. 

And I didn't have TJ level coffee, but I had decent name brand coffee That was better than, better say it, quote unquote. I don't know. Okay. I think it was something, I think it was something silly like black rifle coffee or something like that.

I tried, yeah. So like not top level, but, and I ran outta coffee, ran down to the dollar gentle, which was three miles away from the house and I just needed a little bit, the 

one near my house. 

Yeah, the one near your house. And I was scanning and the Dollar General's not always the cheapest place to buy coffee.

And I'm like, I just need a little bit, the cheapest stuff. And it was Folgers. 

There you go. 

Brought it home, put it through the dip machine. Took my first sip and I was like. This is like grandpa's house tastes 

like home. 

It tastes like home. Yep. 

Right? Yeah. Yep. So I would, I've repented of my good coffee making and just happy to serve Folgers 

Fancy pants 

coffee making.

So have somebody brew up a pot of Folgers, put it out there, put it somewhere normal. Now I'm gonna say something that is a little fancy pants. Please don't use those little styrofoam cups that Yeah, I would 

agree. Grab 'em. 

They just crumble. They disintegrate. 

It's just practically, it's just not very good.

Right. Get a decent, go on Amazon, get a decent set of paper cups, maybe even with the little sleeve, something like that. That that's a great way to serve people. Um, so yeah, you have some kind of refreshment out. Here's a big one that I think people forget signage. If I walk into your church and I gotta go and I cannot figure out where the bathroom is.

That is the most frustrating, excuse me, frustrating experience ever. And it's not hard to put up some signs that say bathroom this way. And make sure if you were a guest with fresh eyes, that you could actually follow those signs to the restrooms. Um, one, whatever you call it, sanctuary, auditorium, whatever.

Um, have a sign there so people know where to go. If you have Sunday school, this is a big one. We've actually messed this up lately. I, in our Sunday school hour, we did kind of get used to guests not coming as much. Mm-hmm. That's something typically that you're a member or regular attender before you start going to Sunday school.

And it's easy not to have a reader out for Sunday school, and it's easy to think that everyone knows which classroom to go to and what the topic is and all that stuff. Joe does a really good job of developing signs to put out and all that kind of stuff. We just gotta remember to make sure we have somebody who's gonna put the signs out.

Yeah, that's the thing to follow through part. I have actually two things about signage. Part of my strategy about Sunday school science is not just directional, like that's primary. I wanna get people into the right classroom. To to go to the right class that they're interested in, but also when those signs are out in the hallway and they are good signs, yeah.

Then people in the 10 o'clock worship hour, as they're coming in and coming out, they can also see that they're there and maybe come back again and join in for there signage in a small rural church that's got a lot of traditions is not the easiest home run that you think it would be. You might get some pushback on this one in a different church.

I did put some signs up, auditorium, classrooms, bathrooms, just really simple things and I got some grumpy people. 

Ah, 

there was two reasons why they were grumpy. 'cause I didn't ask them to make the signs, I think was the real reason why they were grumpy. But the other reason was almost exactly what, what you said before.

This is a small church. People can figure it out. Well, no they can't. Or maybe they can figure it out, but they wanna be confident in the decisions that they're gonna make. That's right. 

Yeah. 

That's really good. So there's a just a note that maybe you're gonna have to bring your congregation along on why we're doing it.

The third thing 

I was gonna share, I thank you for reminding me. That was my opportunity to be able to share and teach and equip. Not just that person, but other people about visitors in hospitality. 

Josh, you're at a church plant in a rural community. 

Yes. 

Um, where the church is underrepresented, there's not a lot of healthy churches in that community.

And, and you have been going through difficult, tough spots, like tough, actual Oh yeah. Meeting spaces. 

Building, and here's where I'm going with this, is we are encouraging people to plant churches in towns where there's no healthy churches. So presumably Lord willing, and with God's help, some people are listening mm-hmm.

Who are gonna be in a similar boat as you mm-hmm. Where maybe they've had to meet in a home, they've had to meet in a rented space, something like that. How do you handle hospitality in a rural community when you don't have a home, church, home building? 

Yeah. I think, uh, signs to get there. Um, because we can't have a permanent sign up.

We can't, you know, because 

So how do you do those? 

We've met, we have a-frame signs that have double-sided cardboard. Now there's still room for improvement. Um, we can get to our service times on the ones closest to the, well you 

said the word cardboard there. I don't wanna confuse anybody. 

Um, 

gator board 

actually.

Yeah. Yeah. Is that what it's called? Mm-hmm. Okay. So they're plastic, they're heavy duty plastic. And then you, Velcro. Um, you know, these rectangular signs to them. Um, they've been very useful, easy to set up and tear down. In our current meeting, we, we have had as much as 13 

signs 

set up at one point because of where we met.

We met at a, at a local university and there was like four different ways that you could get there. So we actually directed all of the traffic one way and we had signs set up at each. Potential intersection to make sure everyone was going the right way. So, so we had guys setting up 13 signs at one point.

Um, but that way people knew where they were going and they didn't get confused. And on the rare occasion where we didn't get all of them out, or we had forgot people were even members, got a little confused, which is not, you know, not great. Uh, we have one way as we talk, I'm thinking, man, we should have parking people.

We've been meeting in so many different locations. We don't always have someone outside. Uh, to greet people. Um, and that's 

how the way it happens, right? We know the principle, but then we, yep. Some circumstance distracts us. Move away from it. 

Now, we, we most recently lost perhaps the best greeter on the planet at, to another church plant.

Uh, but my dad's been filling that role really well. By God's grace, he greets people with a warm smile, shakes their hand. We have a greeter inside that hands our bulletin out. We don't have any screens right now. So for our, uh, lyrics, we don't have any hymnals. That's what we use. Uh, we have our, we call it, um, starting point almost right next to the coffee.

We have coffee that we welcome people to. Uh, and uh, from my, the announcements on Sunday morning, I try to just share some housekeeping things, where the bathrooms are, where they can go for kids' ministry check in. We'd love for you to stick around afterwards and just enjoy a cup of coffee with us. These types of things.

I have a couple things on signs. 

Sure. 

Say it. 

Don't put too much information on them. Make it so that people can read those signs. If the sign's gonna be out at a place where people are driving by and make sure that people can read it at 55 miles, 55 miles an hour. 

Yeah. 

If people are walking, make it so that they're able to read it.

And I don't necessarily push back on your times on putting on the signs for like, you, you can put those times on there, but make sure that people are gonna be able to read those. 

Sure. Make 'em big. Make 'em 

so legibility is key. Uh, make them neat. 

How long did you design signs for? Joe? Gonna 

say he's a sign maker for you.

Yeah. Long time. 

Long time. Yeah. 

Yep. Um, and then also one of the things with signs, it's worth the investment I would spend. A couple hundred bucks on an A-frame sign. Not that it's gonna cost you that much, but total investment. If you're in a church building and you've been there for a long time and nothing on the outside has changed at all, putting an A-frame sign out there with a couple of planters changes the look.

Catch the eye. Catches the eye. And I guarantee you that people will be able to see that. People that would look right past your church, you've got something new out there that catches your eye. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a way, 

well, we're gonna wind this section down here, but before I do, just a couple other quick hitters, make sure that your, your entryway is clean.

Um, a classic mistake of rural churches is you have a food pantry or you have a clothing giveaway or something like this. And people 

or just people picking up stuff. 

Yeah, that's true too. Oh yeah, yeah. The exchange point for, Hey, I'll give you that on Sunday. Um, and people just dump stuff in the foyer at the coat rack, um, on the front stoop, wherever it is.

And everyone's gotta walk by a mess to get into the church. That communicates something that you don't mean to communicate. It's actually not hospitable, just like normal people wanna pick up their house a little bit before guests come over. You should want to do that for your church. And if you're not a pastor and you're watching this or listening to this, you have the same responsibility.

Uh, this is something that every member should take responsible responsibility for to make sure that place is cleaned up. Um, smells is another thing. Mm-hmm. A lot of churches get an old musty smell. Yep. Um, and then sometimes we try to mitigate by punching people in the face with those stupid glad plugins.

Um, they, they can be too strong. Tell 

us how you really feel, tj. 

Well, I, I put out about 50 GLAD plugins. In our old musty church building. 

Yeah. 

And I didn't realize the number of people with sensitivities to Yeah, 

sure. 

Things like perfume Yep. And whatever. And I was punching 'em in the face and I didn't even know 

it.

We, we recently stayed in an Airbnb and there was like eight of 'em. So I unplugged all of them. It was very overpowering. 

Yeah. And part of you is like, what you trying to cover up? 

Yeah. Right. 

So, um, but hey, burn some, some mild smelling candles. I 

was waiting for incense in there. 

Put some incense on the altar if you're authorized.

I've got more things about hospitality. 

Yeah. 

I know we're going long. 

Punch list. Punch list, 

punch list. All of these things that we're talking about, whether it's signs, whether it's greeters, whether it's parking lot attendants, whether it's people handing out bulletins. Those are all ways for you to equip the saints for the work of the ministry.

Amen. 

Get them involved. 

Yeah. 

This is just an incredible, easy way to be able to build investment from your folks and get them involved in the church ministry. That's right. And then at the. Okay, so we've talked about, we haven't even talked about ushers yet. So whether you have ushers or whether you regularly communicate to your members, Hey, if a visitor sits down in your area where you're sitting, engage them.

Be kind. Be nice. At least say hello. Introduce, 

yeah. Don't say, that's my seat. 

No, don't say that. Oh my goodness. Thank 

literally has been said 

to me, literally, don't do that. And then at the end of the service, TJ is incredibly good at this. Along with the charge that you give them about the sermon, give them a charge to be hospitable to one another.

Even if your members who see one another all the time, hey, uh, build friendships, go out to lunch with one another, stand here and talk with one another, um, while you're stacking the chairs. Right? But that's particularly for our church. But be active in encouraging your members to take care of the guests who come.

Yeah, that's really good. All right. I think the, the plate is full. The bucket is loaded, and it is time for Uhoh and SOS. Man. I hear that morse code in the background. 

Indeed. 

Yeah. I don't actually, 'cause I don't have headphones on, but I know saw it. I can see that. 

I see, I see the levels. 

Yep, that's right.

What's it stand for, Josh? Uh, subscribe if you haven't already. And, uh, you're enjoying this content by God's grace and, uh, you'd like more subscribe that way you can stay up to date with any latest updates from rural pastors talk. 

You know what else you can do. You can offer a review. It is super helpful for us.

I think I'm gonna just challenge our listeners. I think it's been a Koons age since anybody has left a review on. On Spotify, apple, whatever. So if you could go on. Josh is looking right now. Looking right now. If it's more than like a, a year, just don't even tell us. 

Okay. 

Um, to, to see when the last review was, but just go leave a review.

Five star reviews help us get into the algorithm. We wanna see a healthy church in every rural community. This podcast is meant to help strengthen the church in rural places. Places not a lot of people are talking about. So would you help us that way? And lastly, do you know what they could do since Josh has preoccupied Joe, 

I think they could subscribe.

Is that what Josh already said? 

No. Share. 

Oh, okay. 

Ha. We got this. I, you know why? I know that Because the other day we were riding in the car my wife and I were, and I don't know. Sting a song came out like sending out an SOS Oh yeah. And Ashley goes, they could share, offer a review and subscribe. She remembered and she remember work.

We got at least one person listening to real pastors talk. 

That's right. Yeah. That's 

so 

funny. Hallelujah. Yeah, if you'd subscribe, that would just float our boat. Um, we'd love it. And you know what, we we're done with that. Now it's more than a year, isn't it? 

We're not gonna talk about 

that. Yeah, I know. It's lame.

Um, so help us out there. Somebody do it, and then emails and tell us. In fact, I'll tell you what, if you will go and leave a review, five star review, I will send you a brainer t-shirt. Whoa. If you email me and tell me where to send it. 

Whoa. 

So there you go. 

Sweet. 

Alright. Um, and now it's time for stuff, 

bro.

Bastards, 

can you 

reviews. 

Alright, so, so that little man on the screen with a flannel on, if you're watching. Is there to tell you that we're about to review some stuff. He looks rednecky, I think. 

Yeah, a little. Yeah. 

Yeah. He's like city redneck. 

I follow a, a content creator, it's called Really very crunchy.

That looks like her husband. 

Okay. Well 

anyway. 

Awesome. Thanks Josh. Yeah, welcome. 

Speaking of crunchy. 

Alright. Yeah. Well, hey, you, you got something to review? 

Yeah. Uh, it's a, it, it, it is something to give you immediate gratification with your hands if you're in ministry. Because we don't always see fruit born, but when we use our hands and work around our homes or on our vehicles, we're like, oh yeah, I did that thing and it's done.

And praise the Lord that it's done and it might save you a few bucks. Uh, I realized that before we moved to Mansfield, uh, that I used to change my oil and it, and, and it would save me quite a bit of money. We have a phenomenal mechanic. He's one of our church members. Really thankful for him. Uh, but just a way to save a few bucks and to just.

Get me to use my hands a little bit. I was changing my oil. Uh, but then we moved, we did a, we were doing a bunch of stuff, planning the church, building a house. So I stopped and it dawned on me this weekend, wait a second. Uh, we have some other expenses coming up. Um. Four different things. One of the ways I can save a few bucks is if I start changing my oil again.

So I changed both of, uh, both of our vehicles oil yesterday, and it was very rewarding. I was very encouraged. It didn't take that long, maybe 30 to 45 minutes each vehicle, um, especially now that I know each vehicle, how to do it, where to do it, what to look for. It'll be much quicker. Saved me about a hundred bucks.

Uh, probably would've cost over two to get the oil changed in both my vehicles. I was able to do it. Oil, um, got for $25 a bottle and it's like for long engines and stuff like that. Uh, long engines. You have 

a long engine in your truck. 

Sorry, 

I wanna get one of those. 

Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. The mileage is like a lot.

Not long. It's a lot. Uh, and, uh. Yeah, so now I'll only have to spend, uh, $50, uh, $25 for each vehicle after this because I bought, uh, 10 quartz and I only needed six. And now I'm gonna be able to roll over and the filter's only $10. So next time I'm gonna save like 140 bucks. 

Land a plan, brother. 

Well, wait. I wanna 

change your oil.

Do you change your own oil? 

Just do, do, yeah. 

Yeah. Using 

hands 

save. I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm loaded. I'm gonna double down on what you're gonna say. 

I know you are. Yeah. 

Yeah, I changed my own oil. Not only do I change my own oil, I change my own brakes. 

Ooh, I haven't gotten 

that for yet. I'm never riding with you again, 

dude.

You can save like three or 400 bucks. If you learn how to change your own brakes, change your own ator, a lot of those Bolton parts, you can save a ton of money. And the reason I'm able to do that. Especially the breaks part is because we have a dear, very dear pastor friend of mine, of ours who's taught me how to do it.

Mm 

Ah, right. 

And even borrow some tools to do that. Mm. So, 

all right, Josh, I'm going to just zing you. 

Zing me. 

All right. 

I got your back. Josh, 

you might not. This is a pretty compelling argument. 

Yes. 

What percentage of your home is complete? 

Listen, uh, like 45. 

All right. So if you were to hire somebody to come in and finish your home, how much do you think you'd have to pay 'em?

An hour. 

Oh, a lot of money. 

Over 30. 

Oh yeah. 

Okay. Over 50. 

No. 

Okay. So somewhere in between. 

Yeah. 

All right. So if you paid yourself that much money 

Yeah. 

Instead of changing your oil, it would've paid for itself if you could have put that time into working on your house. 

Yes. 

It would've actually paid you more to work on your house instead of your car.

Yeah. I actively chose not to do that yesterday though. 

Well, if you wanna bring, I needed a switch, man. 

I will 

say this the, the first time, if 

you, I needed to do something different than siding 

yesterday. If you've never changed the oil in your car, it might take you an hour to do, but after that, you should be able to change the oil in your car for half an hour.

I, I like pulling into the take five. With those highly trained mechanics, 

how long does it take you to get to the Take five? 

Whose work ethic is great. I only do it when I'm already in, when 

the red light comes on, 

if I need to go eat at the cracker Barrels, then I know that I'm gonna be near take five.

Actually, the best ice cream in our region is pretty close to a take five. So double. 

So oil change. 

Double 

dip ice cream for five. 

I will say, oh no, I'll take my kids in, in my defense. There are a number of pieces that need to happen for me to continue to get work done on my house. Yes. I didn't have an extension ladder yesterday.

Okay. 

How the argument's 

coming back. Yeah. I haven't gotten 

metal dumpster. But you did have a fancy belt, man. You were, had tools hanging up and you all 

over 

the 

place. That's 

true. 

That's, that's because I could reach that with the ladder I have. I need an extension ladder. 

So anyway, this is a contentious point.

This stuff real pastors can review. Um, if you are like Josh and you need a little break and you like working with your hands, or if you're like Joe and you got it down to a. You can do it in two minutes, like a NASCAR driver, it might be worth it, but I would encourage you, go get ice cream. Let somebody else crawl on under your car and enjoy your life.

Listen to a sermon while they're changing it, and it's 

great. Awesome. 

All right. I think we've reached the time for a quote to float your boat. And I have one. 

Oh, I have one too. 

All, let's fight 'em out. Okay. 

Oh, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I just realized something TG doesn't even like changing the water in the Keurig, so I understand why you change the oil 

when other people happily change the water in the Keurig.

I don't like, I don't like doing other people's work for him. I, I don't. Speaking of hospitality? 

Yes. Okay. I 

got one from, yeah. Fill out the Keurig when you're done. Joe 

Rosaria Butterfield's book. The gospel comes with a house key. Radically ordinary hospitality shows this skeptical post-Christian world, what authentic Christianity looks like.

Hmm. There you go. Mine is very similar. Now, I would've said Mine's from Jonathan Lehman to keep you beaming. 

Alright. 

You, you would've said yours is from Rosaria to keep you from, 

I don't know, 

getting too far. You away from good hospitality. 

Great. 

Um, all right, Jonathan Lehman says, hospitality pictures, aspects of God's generous love in the gospel.

Amen. On the same page. Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of Rural Pastors Talk, and we have been so glad to have you. Uh, it has been a joy. I'm still figuring out how to push all the right buttons over here, so ignore that man on the screen with the rural pastors reviews. As I get to this one, there we go.

Alright. Hey, that was about as the worst way to land the plane that anybody could do it, but you stuck around for all that. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Rural Pastors Talk. We look forward to seeing you here again, and we're so thankful that you are out there in the middle of nowhere, making Christ know.

Mm-hmm. 

See you next time. 

Bye. Raise your Ebenezer.